This very special conversation between Dr. Gabor Mate and Roshi Joan Halifax in 2022 offers insight into the myth of "normal" as we seek to center ourselves amidst vast global shifts in recent years. This conversation is offered by Upaya Zen Center, a Buddhist monastery in Santa Fe, New Mexico which offers daily Zen meditation, weekly dharma talks, and programs on Buddhist teachings, Buddhist art, neuroscience, and social engagement. We also conduct professional trainings for end-of-life care and Buddhist chaplaincy. Learn more about current in-person and online programs available to our global sangha at https://www.upaya.org/