This week, Jen and Amy sit down with actress, musician, and author Bethany Joy Lenz to discuss her deeply personal memoir, Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!).
Bethany opens up about her experience in the high-control religious group, “The Big House Family” cult, sharing how she navigated spiritual abuse and found her way back to faith and autonomy—thanks, in part, to a One Tree Hill fan. Together, they explore themes of manipulation, resilience, and the transformative power of telling your story.
In this raw and inspiring conversation, Bethany offers hope, clarity, and empowerment for anyone seeking freedom from their own struggles.
Plus, Jen and Amy “Rant or Rave” about New Year’s resolutions, with Amy introducing creative perspectives to help you feel more successful in this area. And they reminisce about their favorite early-2000s shows—West Wing (the best!), Criminal Minds, 24, Grey’s Anatomy, Gilmore Girls, and, of course, One Tree Hill.
Thought-Provoking Quotes from Bethany Joy Lenz:
“It doesn’t feel like a courageous act. It’s survival. Courage is when you are fully aware of the dangers that lie ahead—like a fireman, willing to run into a burning building to grab a baby—that’s courage because you know what’s at stake. When you are already in the burning building trying to find your way out, it doesn’t take courage, it’s survival—‘find me the exit, how do I get out?’”
“My faith has evolved into something that is much more connected to my gut, which feels much more authentic. I feel a lot more comfortable asking questions, and I really value doubt. The truth rises to the top. I think God is capable of communicating with all of us when it’s the right time in the right way. If the gospel shows us anything, it's that God meets us where we are.”
“I think a lot of Christians live in a space where we think it's very noble to not question God, like we think he’ll love us more, appreciate us more, we’ll be better disciples or believers. But he gave us the brains that we have for a reason. Is he capable of satisfying our intellect or not? So, push the button as hard and as far down as you can. It’ll hold.”
“God is big enough to hold all of you. There’s nothing that you can present to God that is going to scare him off. He can handle the worst version of you, the angry version of you, the confused version of you. You don’t need other people to hold you. The Bible is full of stories of God one-on-one with someone (Job, Moses, Jesus), so you don’t need to be afraid of being alone with the Lord.”
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Paul Teal - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3806295/
Joy’s tribute to Paul Teal - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCf3CtopQt1/
Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!) - https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Vampires-Life-While-Actual/dp/1668067307
Drama Queens Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/344eFGlcjmdAUqvWzPJzBk
Tim Keller sermon on Doubt - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/praying-our-doubts/id352660924?i=1000678149013
Modern Vintage News - https://www.modernvintagenews.com/
Guest’s Links:
Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/
Joy’s Twitter - https://x.com/itsjoylenz
Joy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BethanyJoyLenz/
Joy’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@msbethanyjoylenz
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker
The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.