Nan Yu is the head of product at Linear, one of the most beloved and fastest-growing B2B SaaS products out there today, and the gold standard for high-performing tech teams. In our conversation, we discuss:
• Why speed and quality aren’t actually at odds
• Linear’s unique approach to product development
• Nan’s systematic approach to creativity
• Linear’s philosophy on deadlines
• The “double triangle” framework for product management
• Nan’s approach to landing his dream product roles
• Much more
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• Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product: https://sinch.com/lenny
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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu
Where to find Nan Yu:
• X: https://x.com/thenanyu
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenanyu/
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Introduction to Nan Yu and Linear
(04:54) Survey insights: Linear vs. Jira
(07:51) The speed vs. quality myth
(09:24) Building and iterating quickly
(15:31) Avoiding bloat in enterprise software
(23:57) Understanding user needs deeply
(30:09) How to approach customer calls
(34:10) Creating strong emotional hooks
(40:31) Managing the product backlog
(44:46) Systemizing creativity
(48:16) Demo: Saving drafts in Linear
(51:38) Breaking constraints and building at extremes
(54:15) Adopting new tools
(58:22) The “double triangle” framework for product management
(01:04:23) Effective job-hunting strategies for PMs
(01:09:15) Thoughts on deadlines
(01:14:15) Lightning round
Referenced:
• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
• Linear: https://linear.app/
• Patrick Collison’s post on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1869422495985750459
• Magnus Carlsen on X: https://x.com/magnuscarlsen
• Hikaru Nakamura on X: https://x.com/gmhikaru
• Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead
• Customer Request feature on Linear: https://linear.app/customer-requests
• Everlane: https://www.everlane.com/
• Schlep Blindness: https://paulgraham.com/schlep.html
• Linear’s triage tool: https://linear.app/docs/triage
• Patrick Collison’s post about mental models on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1443215022029619200
• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach
• Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr (author of Working Backwards): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of
• Mode: https://mode.com/
• The Diplomat on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288983
• Sakura Micron pens: https://www.amazon.com/SAKURA-PIGMA-MICRON-ESSENTIAL-COLORS/dp/B07VJFXT3C/
Recommended books:
• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986
• The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654/
Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.